Wednesday 10 July 2013

AnsweringIslam.org - Tacit Admission of Dishonesty

So here we have it folks. As close to an admission you will get from Sam Shamoun of dishonesty – sadly no apology!

You will know that one of Shamoun’s colleagues (Anthony Rogers) was the victim of some misinformation concerning the number of soldiers who accompanied Prophet Muhammad to liberate Mecca, see here:

Anthony claims Al-Tabari said it was 12,000 (which was found to be untrue - see here). Anthony got the misinformation of A-Tabari stating 12,000 liberated Mecca from Sam Shamoun’s article, see the screenshot of the relevant part in case Sam has another bout of dishonesty:
 


So, as you can see, Sam Shamoun partially quoted from the Al-Tabari reference, this is the part which he did cite:

The Messenger marched with 2,000 Meccans and 10,000 of his companions [who had marched with him and] with whose help God had facilitated the conquest of Mecca. Thus there were 12,000 in all ..."

You can see, the citation is incomplete and it’s unclear (due to the omission of the entire reference). However, it becomes OBVIOUS why Sam Shamoun did not cite it fully. He did not cite it fully as the full reference shows the 12,0000 were in fact going to confront the Hawazin NOT THE MECCANS (the Hawazin were confronted 19 days AFTER the Conquest of Mecca in the Battle of Hunain). Here is the full citation which Sam Shamoun provided upon being pressured in my comment section yesterday:
 
The Messenger marched with 2,000 Meccans and 10,000 of his companions [who had marched with him and] with whose help God had facilitated the conquest of Mecca. Thus there were 12,000 in all. The Messenger of God placed 'Attab b. Asid b. Abi al-'As b. Umayyah b. 'Abd Shams in charge of Mecca [to look after] the men who stayed behind while he proceeded to confront Hawazin."

Notice the omission of WHO these 12,000 were confronting? Sam tried to mislead people into thinking that the Al-Tabari reference was telling us 12,000 took part in the Conquest of Mecca by DECEPTIVELY omitting the part where it tells you it was concerning a battle against the Hawazin (Battle of Hunain)
 
So as we can see, the reference is clearly not about Mecca. Shamoun knew this but misdirected (let's be blunt deceived) Anthony Rogers and other Christian readers into thinking the number of soldiers in the Conquest of Mecca were 12,000. Shamefull deceptive!

Summary

Sam Shamoun, in his desperation to push away the Muslim argumentation that Deut 33:2 refers to Prophet Muhammad and the 10,000 soldiers who liberated Mecca, dishonestly claims that the number of the soldiers was 12,000. He uses the reference from AlTabari (above) to convince his Christian audience of this whilst KNOWING the reference was not about Mecca but about the Battle of Hunain (confronting the Hawazin) -  a battle that took place 19 days after the Conquest of Mecca which comprised of 10,000 companions who took part in the Mecca conquest and 2,000 others (largely Meccan converts to Islam after the Conquest of Mecca)  who swelled the ranks AFTER the Conquest of Mecca.

Sam Shamoun knew the AlTabari citation was in fact about a different battle hence his omission of the crucial part of the reference  (that the 12,000 were going to confront the Hawazin NOT to conquest Mecca)

In fact, even from the bit he did cite, anybody with decent reading comprehension would be able to see that AlTabari was not referring to the Conquest of Mecca but soe battle AFTER the conquest as he differentiates between the 10,000 companions (those who helped liberate Mecca) and the 2,000 Meccans who joined he Muslims after they had seen their city taken over by the Prophet (p).

So all in all, we have seen a tacit admission from Sam Shamoun of dishonesty. Can somebody call Dr James White and ask him to clean up this rotten ‘ministry’ of Shamoun’s? Failing that, email Samuel Green. Or if he is too busy to get the hoover and dust cloth out why not call Ergun Caner and ask him to clean up this corrupt ministry!

PS The number of 10,000 is actually confirmed by alTabari in that citation for those who are informed but there is actually a Hadith from Bukhari which confirms the number to be 10,000. See here:

Email: yahyasnow@yahoo.co.uk

Does Answeringislam.org believe in all their resurrection stories unlike William Lane Craig?:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/william-lane-craig-doubts-resurrection.html

The Sam Shamoun section:
Sam Shamoun needs a lesson in scholarship and logic, step forward Dr Shabir Ally:

13 comments:

Sam said...
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Yahya Snow said...

Sam, boring

STAY ON TOPIC

The topic is YOUR deceptive citation of al-tabari

Try and be scholarly and intellectual rather than having a hernia over your keyboard trying to obfuscate in changing the subject

Face facts, you deceived Rogers (and who knows who else). You left Rogers looking silly in the debate all because of your dishonesty.

You seem obsessed with spamming stuff that's not related to the topic? Why?

To detract attention from your dishonesty?

Then you have he audacity to ask me to debate you. LOOK at all the posts in the Sam Shamoun section which literally show you up to be foolish, dishonest, unscholarly and uncontrolled

The Sam Shamoun section:

http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Sam%20Shamoun

Now have some self-control Sam and go away to rethink your life. Come back with an apology for your dishonesty

A man without self-control is like a city broken into and left without walls. [Proverbs]

Anonymous said...

1. Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?
•God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)
•Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)

2. In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?
•Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
•One million, one hundred thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)

3. How many fighting men were found in Judah?
•Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
•Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)

4. God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?
•Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)
•Three (I Chronicles 21:12)

5. How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?
•Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)
•Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)

6. How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?
•Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8)
•Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9)

7. How long did he rule over Jerusalem?
•Three months (2 Kings 24:8)
•Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9)

8. The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?
•Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8)
•Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11)

9. When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?
•After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)
•Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)

10. How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?
•Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)
•Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)

11. When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?
•One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4)
•Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4)

12. How many stalls for horses did Solomon have?
•Forty thousand (I Kings 4:26)
•Four thousand (2 chronicles 9:25)

13. In what year of King Asa's reign did Baasha, King of Israel die?
•Twenty-sixth year (I Kings 15:33 - 16:8)
•Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1)

14. How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple?
•Three thousand six hundred (2 Chronicles 2:2)
•Three thousand three hundred (I Kings 5:16)

15. Solomon built a facility containing how many baths?
•Two thousand (1 Kings 7:26)
•Over three thousand (2 Chronicles 4:5)

16. Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab?
•Two thousand eight hundred and twelve (Ezra 2:6)
•Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen (Nehemiah 7:11)

17. How many were the children of Zattu?
•Nine hundred and forty-five (Ezra 2:8)
•Eight hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:13)

18. How many were the children of Azgad?
•One thousand two hundred and twenty-two (Ezra 2:12)
•Two thousand three hundred and twenty-two (Nehemiah 7:17)

19. How many were the children of Adin?
•Four hundred and fifty-four (Ezra 2:15)
•Six hundred and fifty-five (Nehemiah 7:20)